* Dr. Ivins explained that whenever they do a subcutaneous challenge with virulent anthrax, it is ALWAYS done at biolevel 3 (or for aerosol challenges BL-4)
Posted by DXer on October 24, 2011
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CASE CLOSED ... what really happened in the 2001 anthrax attacks? 
DXer said
The FOIA officer needs to catch a flight and so I don’t think we’ll be seeing the new documents today.
DXer said
Old Atlantic has suggested that the rabbits were done in some other phantom BL-3.
That of course is false.
The key pad entries into B3 and PIN entry into BL-3 confirm that the rabbits were done in Rm. 313.
There is no way that the prosecutors and investigators did not know this given the documents available to them that they withheld from Dr. Ivins and now are withholding from the public. (Some over the course of 3 years were produced by USAMRIID by the helpful and hardworking FOIA overseeing USAMRIID production.
Ed, who Old Atlantic is referring to, confuses an assertion by a prosecutor as evidence. Instead, one turns to the documentary evidence and relevant 302 interview statements.
DXer said
My September 1, 2011 request for the notebooks that would show what Dr. Ivins was doing on dates that the DOJ speculated, without basis, that Dr. Ivins was making powdered anthrax was not expedited and has not been answered.
It was been assigned FOIA Request Number #1173005-000 on 9-12-2011. I received no notice of a decision not to expedite it and thus could not appeal the decision.
My request sought:
“From materials gathered in the Amerithrax investigation, I seek to obtain a copy of Dr. Bruce Ivins’
(1) Notebook 4240 “Immunization of rabbits at Covance for antiserum – 18 SEP and 16 OCT”.
and
(2) Notebook 4241 re “Receipt of 30 vials of rPA from _________ on 30 SEP”
The FOIA person at USAMRIID … advises me that FBI took the notebook without leaving a copy and thus it is not available for USAMRIID to produce.
For your convenience and expedition of the request, note that I believe the notebooks were processed as part of Request # 1135601 by requestor MARC GOLD. He was provided 5,649 pages in response to his 8/172009 request for Ivins/ Laboratory Material. Alternatively, the previous month, Marc Gold in connection with a request dated July 20, 2009 was provided 3,370 pages on July 28, 2009 – again for Ivins/ Laboratory Material.
Thank you for your expedited assistance in this matter as we approach the anniversary of 9/11.”
oldatlantic said
Thank you for your work in keeping after this.
oldatlantic said
In vitro correlate of immunity in a rabbit model of inhalational
anthrax*
M.L.M. Pitt *,r~.L~itt.le , B.E. Ivins, P. Fellows, J. Barth, J. Hewetson, P. Gibbs,
M. Dertzbaugh, A.M. Friedlander
United States Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases, Fort Detrick, Frederick, MD 21 702-501 1, USA t Received 16 April 2001; received in revised form 25 May 2001; accepted 30 May 2001
The search b313 rabbits anthrax
was performed and the pdf assayed for the following form indicating there are contract numbers used. See page 2 of pdf:
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA495566
5a. CONTRACT NUMBER
5b. GRANT NUMBER
5c. PROGRAM ELEMENT NUMBER
6. AUTHOR(S) 5d. PROJECT NUMBER
5e. TASK NUMBER
5f. WORK UNIT NUMBER
7. PERFORMING ORGANIZATION NAME(S) AND ADDRESS(ES)
Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases,Fort
Detrick,Frederick,MD,21702-501
8. PERFORMING ORGANIZATION
REPORT NUMBER
This report should be found for the rabbit, mice, etc. work done in Sep, Oct 2001.
DXer said
Dino Grandoni 29 Views 3:02 PM ET
“ProPublica got a hold of two secret reports on the facility written following the 2001 leak. Both show that “security gaps” at the lab allowed spores to be smuggled out with little trouble.”
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2011/10/anthrax-used-be-easy-smuggle-out-government-labs/44056/
Comment: They were not “secret” in the sense of being classified. They are being kept “secret” only in the sense of being wrongfully withheld under FOIA. You can judge for yourself when they are uploaded and confirm that there was no reason to withhold them.
DXer said
Although they will be uploaded to ProPublica website, you might obtain them quicker from PACER as a practical matter:
The reports are expected to be made public later this week in a $50 million lawsuit filed in federal court in West Palm Beach, Fla., by family members of Robert Stevens, a photo editor for American Media Inc., who was the first person to die from the anthrax attacks.
“It’s about time,” said Richard Schuler, a lawyer for the family. “The public should know about the way security for deadly pathogens was being handled — or mishandled — by the Department of the Army and the government in the period leading up to the 2001 anthrax attacks.”
richard rowley said
Post by Old Atlantic:
———————
So the rabbits, mice, etc were in B313? B313 was a BSL3 lab as of 2001?
=======================================================================================
My sense is:
1) the one-who-must-not-be-mentioned is right about the mice: since they belonged to another scientist and Ivins seemingly was checking out of the B-3 suite to do them (the checks of the mice), they likely have little or no role in explaining his time in BSL-3 lab B313.
2) the rabbits are another matter and I SUSPECT (have no real way of proving) that his extra time in B313 in the evening hours of Sept and Oct had, not so much to do with ‘checking’ them——–likely a task of 20 or so minutes———–but with performing the ‘bleeds’, ‘innoculation’, and injections with the anthrax.
3) the checking COULD have taken a long time when dead animals were found (the autoclaving apparently taking over an hour). See:
https://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/from-dxer-10501-email-from-dr-ivins-explaining-how-he-was-spending-his-time-in-b3-on-the-nights-the-doj-says-he-was-aerosolizing-anthrax/
But I have my doubts that all this stuff will be run down to everyone’s (or even anyone’s) satisfaction.
DXer said
No. That mice study is in a notebook that has Bruce Ivins’ name on it. See his emails for discussion of the passive mice studies. You should rely on documents that speak for themselves or someone qualified to address them.
DXer said
An autoclave takes the 2 hours whether it is a dead mouse or a dead rabbit.
DXer said
Animal resources held animal supplies. See invoices for stocking the AR room with supplies.
oldatlantic said
Thanks for responding and also doing it in a fresh box since that gave others a chance to respond at the maximum number of levels. I think we do need more discussion on this, even though I and likely others may be unsure of some items. I would think that some record of the exact room number this happened in would exist. Can FOIA be specified for Room B313 from July 2001 to November 2001? I.e. everything B313 for that period?
Old Atlantic said
So the rabbits, mice, etc were in B313? B313 was a BSL3 lab as of 2001?
DXer said
Secret Reports: With Security Spotty, Many Had Access to Anthrax
http://www.propublica.org/article/secret-reports-with-security-spotty-many-had-access-to-anthrax