CASE CLOSED … what really happened in the 2001 anthrax attacks?

* What was the name of the school in Kandahar where training in the use of poisons was given?

Posted by DXer on April 27, 2011



39 Responses to “* What was the name of the school in Kandahar where training in the use of poisons was given?”

  1. DXer said

    Here is a January 2001 article about the killing of dogs and rabbits.

    Thus, while I credit there were experiments the month prior to 9/11, the experiments appear to have gone on long before that.

    Killing for the Glory of God, In a Land Far From Home
    Published: January 16, 2001

    One camp, according to those officials, is educating a new generation of recruits in the uses of chemicals, poisons and toxins.

    Within the last year, trainees at the camp, which is called Abu Khabab, have experimented on dogs, rabbits and other animals with nerve gases, the officials said. Recruits have also fashioned bombs made from commercially available chemicals and poisons, which have been tried out on animals tethered to outdoor posts on the camp test range, according to surveillance photographs and informers’ reports. …

    Middle Eastern officials estimate that in the last six months, more than 100 men recruited by Mr. bin Laden’s and affiliated groups have been trained at the camp, which is named after the Egyptian militant who runs it, Midhat Mursi — whose nom de guerre is Abu Khabab.

    The camp is part of a large complex of such training sites known as Darunta, about eight miles from Jalalabad, an Afghan eastern provincial capital, down a dusty road that runs atop an old stone dam of the same name. According to Western and Middle Eastern officials, a cache of chemicals is stored in the reinforced caves of nearby mountains and naturally protected underground tunnels.

    Abu Khabab’s graduates in the last year include Raed Hijazi, the Jordanian-American whom Jordan has convicted in absentia as a ringleader of the failed plot to attack tourists in Amman during the millennium celebrations.

    A rare reference to the explosives training at the Abu Khabab camp appears in the sealed indictment of Nabil abu Aukel, a Palestinian arrested last June by Israel.

  2. DXer said

    Al Qaeda training: poisoning dogs and rabbits, building shoe bombs,0,6412230.story#ixzz2vhplQUgB

    NEW YORK — Saajid Badat had been through all the training, from firing weapons while riding a motorcycle to watching dogs and rabbits, trapped under glass, die slow, agonizing deaths as he learned poisoning techniques. …

    Asked by defense attorney Stanley Cohen how he traveled with the shoe bombs, Badat replied that he simply wore them. On his way back to London from Afghanistan, Badat said he gave one of his shoes to a Malaysian terrorist cell plotting its own airline attack.

    After speaking with his parents, Badat said, he took apart the remaining shoe bomb and stashed its components in his home. He then called his Al Qaeda handler and asked him to pass a message to Reid: “Tell Van Damme he’ll be on his own.”

    Reid, he explained, was given the moniker of the action film star Jean-Claude Van Damme.

    In his cross-examination, Cohen attempted to discredit Badat by casting him as a “mass murderer” in training who lacked empathy for his potential victims, whether passengers on a jetliner or small animals. In an especially tense moment, Cohen, sitting across a table from Badat in London, described the screams of a dog and a rabbit that were put under glass and poisoned by an Al Qaeda trainer as recruits, including Badat, watched.

    • DXer said

      Harefuah. 2007 Mar;146(3):228-34, 244.
      [Cyanides–treatment beneath the shade of terror].
      [Article in Hebrew]
      Krivoy A, Finkelstein A, Rotman E, Layish I, Tashma Z, Hoffman A, Schein O, Yehezkelli Y, Dushnitsky T, Eisenkraft A.
      Although the use of cyanides as warfare agents has not been documented since the Iran-Iraq war in the 1980s, there are rising fears of cyanide being used by terrorists. An Al-Qaeda terror plot to use cyanide gas in the London Underground was foiled in 2002. The threat of similar events becomes more imminent in light of the terror attacks in our country and worldwide, accompanied by statements and threats by fundamentalist leaders to employ chemical weapons. Therefore, mass-intoxication with cyanides is not merely a hypothetical scenario. The treatment of cyanide poisoning is under constant evaluation and there is no international consensus on the subject. The medical treatment of victims at the scene and in hospitals should be rapid and efficient. Current treatment dictates establishing an intravenous line and a slow rate of administration of antidotes. Both demands are not feasible in this specific mass casualty event. The clinical signs of cyanide poisoning are complex, variable and not necessarily obvious for the medical team. There is great interest in reconsidering the existing treatment protocols for cyanide intoxication in light of current research. This review describes the mechanisms of cyanide toxicity, clinical signs of exposure, and current treatment protocols in use worldwide. On the basis of this evidence we suggest a medical treatment protocol for a mass casualty event caused by cyanide.

  3. DXer said

    Maybe we will learn the name of this school in the course of any court proceeding in connection with the indictment of Yazid Sufaat’s assistant, Samar Al-Barak. Beginning many years ago, I have been calling the fellow Al-Barq.

  4. DXer said

    Mr. Eichenwald writes of the return address “Greendale School”:

    “There was a Greendale School, but it was in Wisconsin, not New Jersey.” (p. 131)

    Comment: Actually, there are dozens of Greendale schools.

    see, e.g.,

    None of them are relevant.

    On his chronology, Kurt missed that on September 18, 2001 the FBI accessed the email account that Yazid Sufaat had set up for Zacarias Moussaoui:

    He missed that in correspondence with US-based cell members in June 2001 Ayman Zawahiri used “school” as code for the Egyptian Islamic JIhad.

  5. DXer said

    Laurie Garrett in I HEARD THE SIRENS SCREAMED (July 18, 2011, Kindle) notes:

    “The FBI grasped at circumstantial straws to explain the use of Greendale School in the return address on the anthrax letters: American Family Association, a Christian group to which the Ivins belonged, receiving its regular publication. In 1999 that publication carried an article about an incident that occurred in a Wisconsin school called the Greendale Baptist Academy.”

    • DXer said

      In a recent interview of AUSA Rachel Lieber, it was a missed opportunity to not ask her if she knew that Dr. Ayman Zawahiri used “school” in 2001 as code for Egyptian Islamic Jihad.

  6. DXer said

    Although I have not made a study of it, there was a hierarchy of camps.

    For example, I believe Farouk would be for general training and Tarnak Farms would be for specialized training such as how to recon targets, conduct covert communications, evasion in interrogation etc.

    • DXer said

      Ms. Nguyen worked as a supply clerk at Manhattan Eye, Ear & Throat Hospital, a job that could have put her in proximity to incoming mail.

      • Nitrogen said

        That was misses Nguyen according to the news accounts. But her and her husband were not intouch accourding to the statements made to the press.

        Also her work, home, subway and church were tested but there were no signs of anthrax found.

        But that doesn’t rule out the theroy on cross contatmination and how she may have been more inclined to become infected by a single, or just a few spores.

        • DXer said

          Hey, Nitrogen,

          You made a very confused, very mistaken post, suggesting that the anthrax victim owned property in Florida — even suggesting she had a cosmetology license? And gave a statistical breakdown suggesting God knows what you imagine. Even told us about the property transfer that she didn’t own.

          All this was an obvious mistake and the blog has to maintain a certain basic level of quality of research. I would ask that Lew delete the posts about cosmetology and Florida because you are provably mistaken. And I find the point about cosmetology highly offensive and not very informed about the difficulties faced upon immigration in the late 1970s due to war. Please explain how on earth you could be so confused as to think that the property and Florida relates to her.

          Do you even know KN’s middle name? Her husband’s name? The age of the KN in Florida? How can you make such egregious mistakes?

        • Nitrogen said

          Dxer You said: “I would ask that Lew delete the posts about cosmetology and Florida because you are provably mistaken.”

          I belive that I am right and that I have support my statements.

          Why are you trying to hide the truth?

        • Nitrogen said

          Dxer, who do you work for?

        • DXer said


          It’s real simple. What do you understand KN’s ex-husband’s name to be? And what is your source?

          What do you understand her middle name to be? And what is your source?

          Why do you think she has a cosmetology license? And what is your source?

          You haven’t cited your sources which is a requirement of the blog.

        • DXer said

          This is so stupid. It’s a simple matter to call the Kathy in Florida. And her husband. And confirm that Kathy is a dfiferent Kathy.

          You made the same mistake about a woman in her 60s in Michigan and one in her 40s in Pennsylvania. Even after I called the one in Michigan you weren’t persuaded.

          I work for Lew in maintaining the quality of the blog. People are required to cite sources for factual claims. Given that you have failed to even evidence that you know KN’s ex-husband’s name, or even her middle name, I would ask Lew to delete the thread of posts so as to enforce the rule that claims need to be sourced. Given the study you found on subtilis 1031 was so fascinating — and so potentially hugely important if it was Dr. Ivins’ subtilis — I am surprised at this confusion over KN.

          Given that there was zero basis to suggest a cosmetology license — or at least you have offered none. What record among the cosmetology license do you see as relevant? As relating to KN of NYC for 20 years. And if it the cosmetology license point was irrelevant, it should be deleted as both off-topic and offensive.

          Certainly we can agree it might be relevant who her ex-husband was — and she had contact. But that requires that you know his name and have a source for your claim that you have the right person.

        • Nitrogen said

          Who do you work for?

        • Nitrogen said

          Dxer you said:

          ” I would ask Lew to delete the thread of posts so as to enforce the rule that claims need to be sourced.”

          I have sourced my statement.

          Iwould ask that Lew contact me before removing this thread.

        • Nitrogen said

          Not once have I said that Kathy Nguyen had a cosmetology license.

        • DXer said

          Okay, so what was the reason for posting about cosmetology licenses?

          You do not know her ex-husband’s name. You do not even know her middle name. You cite databases about cosmetology licenses even when it has no relevance.

          The question of her ex-husband was a real and an interesting question. It deserved better treatment than this nonsense that began with your irrelevant discussion of licensing in Florida.

        • DXer said

          Kathy Nguyen never owned property in Florida. Nitrogen is just making nonsense up and in fact never cited any source supporting the claim that she did.

      • DXer said

        During the Vietnam War, Kathy Nguyen, 61, worked for the U.S. Embassy, and was one of the last evacuees to be plucked from its roof by helicopter when the North Vietnamese attacked the city, said Edith Navedo, 57, Nguyen’s friend of 20 years.

        After leaving Vietnam, Nguyen immigrated to New York and began a relationship with a man from East Harlem. Their love affair ended before she gave birth to a sickly son, Navedo said.

        They later divorced, and her ex-husband took the boy to California and later to Germany, Navedo recalls Nguyen telling her.


        New York Post – New York, N.Y.
        Author: DOUGLAS MONTERO
        Date: Oct 31, 2001

        She got married but was divorced by 1982.

        She never owned any property in Florida.

        • Nitrogen said

          Dxer you said:

          “She got married but was divorced by 1982.

          She never owned any property in Florida.”

          Prove it with something more substantial than a new paper article.

        • DXer said

          Lew, delete the posts.

          Nitro, don’t post without citing sources. It’s a waste of the reader’s time.

        • DXer said

          CDC sent me 2000 pages but I find the most authoritative readable source on the issue to Chapter 17, “Eschar: The Story of the New York City Department of Health 2001 Anthrax Investigation,” in the 2010 treastise Cases in Field Epidemiology.

          Someone should identify and locate the ex-husband and then contact him for his insights. The national tragedy was his personal tragedy.

          According to one report, he was from Somalia.

        • Nitrogen said

          I cite and provide the access point to official goverment data bases to support what I say.

          You use a second hand quote from a news paper article,and you ask Lew to delete my post.

          The last time I provided some information that I researched and made sure I was fully supported on you asked Lew to delete all of your post which left mine out of context.

          You have now made the claim:

          “She got married but was divorced by 1982.

          She never owned any property in Florida.”

          Please follow the rules of the site and provide your sources.

        • DXer said

          Kirk, you are confusing people because they have the same common name. Ms. Nguyen did not have a cosmetology license. Not in Connecticut. Not in NJ. She never lived in Florida or Virginia. She is a longtime New York resident.

          Xinh Thi Nguyen was born April 26, 1940, in Vietnam. She later shortened her name to Kathy for English-speaking friends. She would tell them her mother had been a schoolteacher, and her family had rented rooms in Saigon to U.S. soldiers.

          In 1975, as the South Vietnam capital fell to the Vietcong, the United States evacuated approximately 123,000 refugees. Nguyen was no doubt part of that group, although few records still exist, a State Department spokeswoman said.

          Nguyen first went to Guam, and then arrived in San Diego with a refugee visa, immigration officials say.

          She lived out West for a time, marrying a man she later told friends had died of cancer, and giving birth to a son she said died at age 5 in a car accident. By August 1980, she was living in New York City, where she became a US citizen, immigration officials say.

          Jenny Espinal, a longtime friend and neighbor, said Nguyen moved more than a decade ago to a tidy apartment on Freeman Street in the Bronx.

          Nguyen’s Latino neighborhood, a short block from auto shops above Sheridan Expressway, was miles from the mid-Bronx Southeast Asian community. Her quiet building provided a circle of friends that became her family.

          One flight down is Josefa Richardson. Upstairs is Anna Rodriguez. Next door are Espinal and her young children. A few blocks away is St. John Chrysostom Church, where Nguyen wore her Sunday best for the 10 a.m. English Mass.

          “Guaranteed on Easter Sunday, she’d have a fancy hat on,” the Rev. Carlos Rodriguez said. “I would compliment her, and she would always be a little embarrassed.”

          Friends say Nguyen introduced neighbors to Vietnamese food and shared their Latino cooking.

          “She was always from her job to her house, from her job to her house,” Espinal said. “She sometimes said she was tired from working all the time and just wanted to be home.”

          In May 1985, Nguyen landed a job at what was then New York Hospital. Nguyen worked there until May 1991, when she got a stockroom job at Manhattan Eye, Ear and Throat Hospital.

          “You couldn’t ask for a harder worker than Kathy,” said co-worker Joseph Kreytak. “Instead of her 7 ½ hours per day, it was 10 ½ hours per day. We had to force her to take vacation. That’s how dedicated she was.”

        • DXer said

          For example, in connection with the woman who moved to Florida from Virginia, that woman was born May 1958, not 1940.

          If you cited proper sources your confusion could have been more promptly cleared up.

          Do not make factual assertions without citing a proper source.

    • DXer said

      “I thought I knew her,” said Anna Rodriguez, 47, who lives two floors above Nguyen’s apartment in West Farms Estates. “But when they started asking me about her husband and her son, and all that stuff, I didn’t know anything about that.”

      It was reported that Nguyen had held a part-time job in a restaurant. Not true, said the FBI. Another report suggested she made trips to New Jersey. Unsubstantiated.

      Investigators do know that Nguyen, 61, was a Vietnamese emigré who entered the United States in 1975 and moved to West Farms in 1980 after a short sojourn at another Bronx housing complex. She was alone even then, having separated from her husband, whom she eventually divorced.

      A son was killed in a motorcycle accident. A cousin once visited her, but no one has stepped forward as a next of kin. She had an $18,000 insurance policy with Local 1199 of the Service Employees International Union; no beneficiary was named. The union used part of the money to pay for her funeral and put the rest into its insurance fund.

      Nguyen worked the late shift in the basement stockroom of the Eye, Ear and Throat Hospital on Manhattan’s East Side and took the Lexington Avenue local subway home every night, arriving at her building around midnight. After a 40-minute ride, the neighborhood was dark and empty. “It scared her,” said next-door neighbor Jenny Espinal, 37, who had known Nguyen for more than 20 years.

      Nguyen went shopping in Chinatown and to Mass in the Bronx and in midtown Manhattan, bought staples at a bodega half a block from her apartment and did her laundry at the laundromat two doors away. She was a devout Catholic who worshiped at St. John Chrysostum Church near her apartment, but she wasn’t a member. She ate at the Vermicelli Vietnamese restaurant near her office, but nobody remembered her. She was a good tenant and good neighbor, and comfortable as an Asian in an environment dominated by transplanted Puerto Ricans and Dominican immigrants.

  7. Nitrogen said

    With the School in Kandahar teaching the use of poisons and the house of anthrax in Kabul. You have to wonder what school they used to teach operatives how to blend in and to not stand out in America. Other things too like how to obtain cash or how to obtain housing.

    An interesting point on that subject; Kathy Nguyen is the victim in New York who’s died from inhalation anthrax. The source of her contamination may have been cross contamination of the mail.

    The Florida Department of Business Professionals Regulation, (DBPR) provides a website that allows the general public to check the licenses of business professionals.
    The DBPR Online Services website provides information about applicants and licensed individuals for those professions and businesses that are regulated by the Department of Business and Professional Regulation.

    It is located at:

    When a person goes to the website and checks the name of Nguyen you find that there have been a total of 19,590 Licenses issued in the name of Nguyen. About 95% of the licenses issued under the name of Nguyen are in the field of Cosmetology. Almost all of the licenses are for Nail Specialist, Facial Specialist, Full Specialist and Cosmetologist.

    According to the department of the census the top 5 names in the US are Smith, Johnson, Williams, Jones, and Brown. When the top 5 names are compared with the Nguyen results you get.

    Nguyen 19,590 95% field of Cosmetology

    Smith 17,400 20% field of Cosmetology

    Johnson 11,190 15% field of Cosmetology

    Williams 11,700 20% field of Cosmetology

    Jones 877 30% field of Cosmetology

    Brown 10,410 28% field of Cosmetology

    It makes a person wonder why there are more Nguyen and why 95% of those are in the field of Cosmetology.

    What did they teach at that school, other than Cosmetology?

    Considering Kathy Nguyen did purchase property in Leon county Florida on September 28th, 2001 and that property was latter transferred to the wife of Florida Supreme Court Judge.

    It really makes a person wonder what is taught at that Cosmetology School.

  8. DXer said

    Was this different from the school in Kandahar that was next to the fellow accused of having powdered anthrax on him that he planned to use in attacks?

    Teachers at the school, Sangaryar said, could attest to his character.

    The documentary evidence shows that “School” was code used by Ayman Zawahiri to refer to Egyptian Islamic Jihad.

    What are the details of either the school that taught poisons — or this school next to this fellow with the powdered anthrax? Were they the same?

    • DXer said

      Note that the school in Kandahar was different from the House of Anthrax in Kabul.

      Economist, UK,
      27 November 2001
      In the house of anthrax
      Chilling evidence in the ruins of Kabul

      They might start, for example, in a nondescript house in the wealthiest district of Kabul, where a Pakistani NGO called Ummah Tameer-e-Nau (UTN) once had its offices. UTN`s president is Bashiruddin Mahmood, one of Pakistan`s leading nuclear scientists and a specialist in plutonium technology. Last month Mr Mahmood was arrested by the Pakistani authorities and interrogated on his links to the Taliban, with whom he has had frequent contact for, he insists, humanitarian reasons. Mr Mahmood was released again soon afterwards. The Taliban has denied any “abnormal” links between Mr Mahmood and Mr bin Laden, and he himself says he has never met the man.

      In public, UTN helped Afghans with flourmills, school textbooks and road-upgrading schemes. But its offices suggest that this may have been a cover for something far more sinister. According to their neighbours, the Pakistanis who lived and worked there fled Kabul along with the Taliban, but the evidence they left behind suggests that they were working on a plan to build an anthrax bomb.

      An upstairs room of the house had been used as a workshop. What appeared to be a Russian rocket had been disassembled, and a canister labelled “helium” had been left on the worktop. On the floor were multiple copies of documents about anthrax downloaded from the Internet, and details about the American army`s vaccination plans for its troops. The number of copies suggests that seminars were also taking place there.

      One of the downloaded documents featured a small picture of the former American defence secretary, William Cohen, holding a five-pound bag of sugar. It noted that he was doing this “to show the amount of the biological weapon anthrax that could destroy half the population of Washington, DC.

      On the floor was a small bag of white powder, which this correspondent decided not to inspect. It may have contained nothing more deadly than icing sugar, but that could be useful for experiments in how to scatter powder containing anthrax spores from a great height over a city, or to show students how to do this. The living room contained two boxes of gas masks and filters.

      On a desk was a cassette box labelled “Jihad”, with the name of Osama bin Laden hand-written along the spine. Most chilling of all, however, were the mass of calculations and drawings in felt pen that filled up a white board of the sort used in classrooms. There were several designs for a long thin balloon, something like a weather balloon, with lines and arrows indicating a suggested height of 10km (33,000 feet). There was also a sketch of a jet fighter flying towards the balloon alongside the words: “Your days are limited! Bang.” This, like the documents, was written in English.

      Since UTN was run by one of Pakistan`s top scientists, a man with close links to the Taliban and, it is said, close ideological affinities with Mr bin Laden, the circumstantial evidence points to only one conclusion. Whoever fled this house when the Taliban fell was working on a plan to build a helium-powered balloon bomb carrying anthrax. Whether it was detonated with a timer or shot down by a fighter, the result would have been the same: the showering of deadly airborne anthrax spores over an area as wide as half of New York city or Washington, DC.

      After the September 11th attacks, it was generally agreed that western intelligence agencies had failed through lack of “human intelligence”-men on the ground, as opposed to spy satellites and computers monitoring phone calls and e-mails. This failure was to be rectified. Yet since the fall of Kabul on November 13th, journalists have been fanning out across the city. They have stripped houses such as this one, and others directly connected to the al-Qaeda network, of all sorts of documents and other valuable evidence. These have included the names and addresses of al-Qaeda contacts in the West. For the West`s intelligence agencies, September 11th was Black Tuesday. There may be no words with which to describe their failure in the week since the fall of Kabul.

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