CASE CLOSED … what really happened in the 2001 anthrax attacks?

* October 5, 2001 email reporting on October 2, 2001 challenge confirms it was by injection (not aerosol) and that 12 rabbits had died in 3 days since injection

Posted by DXer on March 15, 2011

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30 Responses to “* October 5, 2001 email reporting on October 2, 2001 challenge confirms it was by injection (not aerosol) and that 12 rabbits had died in 3 days since injection”

  1. DXer said

    All 52 rabbits were killed in the end. How many died on October 6, 2001?

    How many died on October 7?

  2. DXer said

    Had Dr. Adams seen this October 5, 2001 email in which Dr. Ivins writes about the work with the 52 rabbits? It had been obtained long before he left his position as head of the FBI laboratory. Why was it withheld by DOJ for years after Dr. Ivins’ suicide? Why did they not discuss the rabbits — even mention the rabbits. Dr. Ivins and his attorney in July 2008 and previously specifically pointed to his work with the rabbits. July 2008 was the month they swabbed Ivins for DNA in connection with the stained panties they found in his trash. Which was more relevant? How he spent his time in the B3 and why he was there? Or DNA testing of the panties. Wasn’t the DNA testing of the semen stained panties just a way of pressurizing a fragile suspect? At the same time the consulting psychiatrist was recklessly relying on as his central witness — the woman who publicly revealed (long before his formal report to the federal district court judge) that she thought she was being chased by murderous fiends from the astral realm?

  3. DXer said

    Instead of the false chronology urged by Kurt Eichenwald in “500 Days: Secrets and Lies In The Terror Wars” (2012), one instead should turn to the uploaded, chronologically-ordered contemporaneous records written by Dr. Bruce Ivins during those same 500 days. For example, rather than Kurt’s false account of October 4, 2001 — based on the federal prosecutor’s false unsupported claim contradicted by the documentary available to her — Mr. Eichenwald merely needed to turn to Dr. Ivins’ October 5, 2001 email summarizing his last three days experience in the lab.

    The lies need stop. Anyone not discussing the rabbits is part of a very serious obstruction of justice.

  4. DXer said

    This floor plan showing the Animal Resources (AR) in Building 1425 with someone at Bacteriology Division. In addition to the plan for the entire floor and the “Animal Resources” (AR) area, it gives the example of AR Room 109 and shows the entire room. (See enclosure 6) But I’ll try to get one closest to 2001.

    http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:Tk3QVwJeStEJ:adamswebsearch2.nrc.gov/idmws/ViewDocByAccession.asp%3FAccessionNumber%3DML070260536+%22Bacteriology+Division%22+floorplan+%22Building+1425%22&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESh3AGZATj7wKM-_ByFSVK4SPnEIgrnS2LqzCLbU_CKcaDFq5ktO3JQruK0Av4dpdnzSQlPmst84iGy6_coNiS7LopClR47XBFhoXog8LzJSdoId9IWGbLqg-O78zlTcWsqSezg1&sig=AHIEtbSElRsrFnyO1YkhBwJ9L4f8eBZ9lw

    ” irradiators C & D Item #5 are located in building 1425, room AR109, USAMRIID, Ft. Detrick (see enclosure 6).”

    • Old Atlantic said

      Does this mean the animal experiments could have been done in Building 1425?

      Were they in the BSL3 during the challenge experiment?

      Presumably, exposure to anthrax would be done in the BSL3.

      Was the autoclave in the BSL3?

      So the animals were in the BSL3 during the experiment, died there, were necropsied there and autoclaved there.

      They were not put into some container and taken to Building 1412 for necropsy and autoclaving?

      • Old Atlantic said

        Sorry I see a note that the necroposies were done in 1412.

        They had AR rooms in Bldg 1425 but necropsied them in 1412?

        • DXer said

          In making the reference about 1412, I was just reporting what a FOIA officer had been told by someone in 2011 that she had queried in the course of tasking the request. We should always seek and resort to the documentary evidence whenever possible. And withhold analysis until we have reliable documents.

          In the course of the choosing how to frame the request (animal, investigator, time period or building), it was determined not to limit to building. The FOIA officer’s contact had just been concerned that if I had limited the request to Building 1425 (I would not capture those done in Building 1412).

          Although the Chiefs of Bacteriology have been wonderful in responding to questions, often a FOIA will get tasked to someone doing ministerial tasks. That person may not know the details of the substantive work.

        • DXer said

          In the materials, an FBI agent walks through each access card entry (by date and time) from August – October 2001 evidences no awareness of what the work entailed. The exercise was focused on determining whether Bruce overlapped with Person X.

          A sounder analytic approach would have been to integrate all the lab notebook page references about what was done and associate them with the time in the lab.

          Dr. Ivins spent the same late hours in November and December 2001 — but then he did not have the same Animal Resources (AR) time. You’ll see from the November and December access records there is not the same AR ins and outs as there is in late September and early October 2001 when Dr. Ivins was doing the long planned animal work.

      • DXer said

        Note that the challenge on October 2, 2001 was a challenge by injection, and not by aerosol. See August and September 2001 emails I’ve posted. Dr. Ivins and others felt that a parenteral challenge because it required fewer personnel and less material.

  5. Zicon said

    The calendar is just a public generalization put together by the FBI from what they have in their possession… Don’t count on everything being in its original form, even though “some” documents are released to the public.. As far as anything to do with autoclave and running it, Once it is started then whom ever started the AC will not be standing in front of it for the whole time until it goes ding.. You start the “steam” and come back in 45 mins to a few hours depending on the degree of contamination and what temperature needs to be achieved for complete decon., then dispose of the animals/materials appropriately. It’s a closed loop system designed for multiple safeties so that there “should” be no EPA problems. That’s not always the case.,, If anyone was using the autoclave for animals then according to protocol there should be records documenting the reason for use of the autoclave and would show the temp. start/stop times along with an batch/process identification… With the notebooks of Ivins personal information and documentation of everything that is done, anyone with any common sense would know that you “always” keep copies of documents, but who would have them.. And where are they? How many “experiments” did Ivins work on that were not on the “books”? To be only known as a number.

    • DXer said

      I don’t think that calendar was created by the FBI. At least there is no indication it was. Summaries of analysis are always clearly labeled as such, for example, as a Washington Field Office memos summarizing various subjects — or the compilation of the expanded 1029 inventory.

  6. BugMaster said

    If these observations were made on October 2nd, how could these be the animals vaccinated on September 18th?

    The protocol describes the past study where the animals were challenged 6 weeks post-inoculation.

    So what were the animals vaccinated on September 18th used for?

    When did they get transfered to USAMRID?

    • BugMaster said

      If the previous bunnies useful role was over on October 5th, does that mean that soon after the bunnies poked on September 18th were delivered to Ivins lab? Would he have had room then new wabbits?

      When were they delivered?

      October 9th?

      By whom?

      Of course, this information would be in the lab notebooks seized by the FBI.

  7. Zicon said

    But yet still I’ve actually heard people that knew him or even worked with Ivins doesn’t buy it and numerous people still say it’s highly unlikely, and that the process of that would have assumed to take place, never did….
    Also to what methods were used to analyze the concentration and to get the purity level of the w-ba someone doesn’t need all the fancy equipment to do what is being speculated by so many… The bigger question would be… Even IF Ivins was working on everything that is assumed by so many, wouldn’t that show absolutely lack of accountability of the base commander to be able to do his/her job to even meet sub-standards of running a competent base/staff and up to date on security, which obviously seems to be severely lacking in many areas to either guard against outside elements or the prevention of failure within the inside of the base which in this case shows complete failure for not standing up to the truth.. To what point does someone say to H*** with your job and speak up or show doc. facts that have not been tampered with… Yet some people are still bound to the “classified agreements”, but how many other notebooks do people keep as a backup… to what amounts to covering your A** in case of something like this happening… I know I would. Was there ever a master list of every place listed on the globe that either makes/supplies/distributes/buys/sells etc. (radioactive/toxic/deadly/viruses/germs/ or any other type of substances… If not, then maybe that will surface someday….

  8. DXer said

    Kenneth Kohl and Rachel Lieber (at page 32, n. 21) of the Amerithrax Summary write:

    “It bears mention that during the first five days of this second phase, Dr. Ivins did make notations regarding the health of some mice involved in a study being conducted by another colleague – thus justifying his presence in the lab for a short time on each of those days (Friday, September 28 through Tuesday, October 2). However, the first three of those days, he was in the hot suites for well over an hour, far longer than necessary to check to see if any mice were dead. And for the three nights before each mailing window, Dr. Ivins was in the hot suites for between two and four hours each night, with absolutely no explanation.”

    Rachel does not provide any citation and refuses (in response to my email to her for the pages) to produce the pages relating to the mice in Building 1425 B3. And so are left to turn to the emails to the use to which mice were put (especially given Ivins thought they were not suitable for vaccine research). The emails were not provided until many, many months after Dr. Ivins death. They should have been provided in September 2008 upon Scott Shane’s FOIA request for the emails. Instead, USAMRIID took 2 years to produce Ivins’ emails.

    The question presented: Is there a connection between mice for the 5 days preceding the October 2 challenge? Was it to test the lethal dosage that was to be administered the rabbits?

    Would those mice pages reveal themselves to be actually part of the Covance study? (and used to determine the LD rate?) Stay tuned while I pull up the emails.

    • Anonymous said

      Here is Bruuce Ivins’ calendar entries for these days with respect to checking animals.

      Date (2001) Calendar Entry
      Sunday September 2 8:00pm Night Guinea pig & mouse check
      Monday September 3 8:00pm Night Guinea pig & mouse check
      Tuesday September 4 8:00pm Night Guinea pig & mouse check
      Wednesday September 5 8:00pm Night Guinea pig & mouse check
      Thursday September 6 8:00pm Night Guinea pig & mouse check
      Friday September 7 8:00pm Night Guinea pig & mouse check
      Saturday September 8 8:00pm Night Guinea pig & mouse check
      Sunday September 9 8:00pm Night Guinea pig & mouse check
      Monday September 10 8:00pm Night Guinea pig & mouse check
      Tuesday September 11 8:00pm Night Guinea pig & mouse check
      Wednesday September 12
      Thursday September 13
      Friday September 14 8:00pm Night Mouse Check
      Saturday September 15 8:00pm Night Mouse Check
      Sunday September 16 8:00pm Night Mouse Check
      Monday September 17
      Tuesday September 18
      Wednesday Septmber 19
      Thursday September 20
      Friday September 21
      Saturday September 22
      Sunday September 23 8:00am Trip to Covance in Denver, PA
      Monday September 24
      Tuesday September 25
      Wednesday September 26
      Thursday September 27
      Friday September 28 8:00pm Night Mouse Check
      Saturday September 29 8:00pm Night Mouse Check
      Sunday September 30 8:00pm Night Mouse Check
      Monday October 1 8:00pm Night Mouse Check
      Tuesday October 2 8:00pm Night Mouse Check
      Wednesday October 3 8:00pm Night Mouse Check
      Thursday Ocober 4 8:00pm Night Mouse Check
      Friday October 5 8:00pm Night Mouse Check
      Saturday October 6
      Sunday October 7
      Monday October 8
      Tuesday October 9
      Wednesday October 10
      Thursday October 11
      Friday October 12
      Saturday October 13
      Sunday October 14
      Monday October 15

      • Anonymous said

        Calendar versus FBI obtained times. The calendar was made in advance – and thus Bruce Ivins seems to have diligently followed what the calendar called for. His calendar called for a break from September 17-27 – and he never worked an evening then – likely another person was scheduled to check. In fact, checks should have been made 3 times daily.

        Date (2001) Calendar Entry Time in to Bldg 1425 Time out of 1425 Total Time in Hot Suite B3
        Sunday September 2 8:00pm Night Guinea pig & mouse check
        Monday September 3 8:00pm Night Guinea pig & mouse check
        Tuesday September 4 8:00pm Night Guinea pig & mouse check
        Wednesday September 5 8:00pm Night Guinea pig & mouse check
        Thursday September 6 8:00pm Night Guinea pig & mouse check
        Friday September 7 8:00pm Night Guinea pig & mouse check
        Saturday September 8 8:00pm Night Guinea pig & mouse check
        Sunday September 9 8:00pm Night Guinea pig & mouse check
        Monday September 10 8:00pm Night Guinea pig & mouse check
        Tuesday September 11 8:00pm Night Guinea pig & mouse check
        Wednesday September 12
        Thursday September 13
        Friday September 14 8:00pm Night Mouse Check 8:54pm 12:22am 2 hours 15 minutes
        Saturday September 15 8:00pm Night Mouse Check 8:05pm 11:59pm 2 hours 15 minutes
        Sunday September 16 8:00pm Night Mouse Check 6:38pm 9:52pm 2 hours 15 minutes
        Monday September 17
        Tuesday September 18
        Wednesday Septmber 19
        Thursday September 20
        Friday September 21
        Saturday September 22
        Sunday September 23 8:00am Trip to Covance in Denver, PA
        Monday September 24
        Tuesday September 25
        Wednesday September 26
        Thursday September 27
        Friday September 28 8:00pm Night Mouse Check 7:16pm 10:59pm 1 hour 42 minutes
        Saturday September 29 8:00pm Night Mouse Check 8:02pm 11:18pm 1 hour 20 minutes
        Sunday September 30 8:00pm Night Mouse Check 9:53pm 12:04am 1 hour 18 minutes
        Monday October 1 8:00pm Night Mouse Check 9:14pm 10:43pm 20 minutes
        Tuesday October 2 8:00pm Night Mouse Check 7:24pm 9:39pm 23 minutes
        Wednesday October 3 8:00pm Night Mouse Check 7:25pm 10:55pm 2 hours 59 minutes
        Thursday Ocober 4 8:00pm Night Mouse Check 6:10pm 10:12pm 3 hours 33 minutes
        Friday October 5 8:00pm Night Mouse Check 7:40pm 12:43am 3 hours 42 minutes
        Saturday October 6
        Sunday October 7
        Monday October 8
        Tuesday October 9 15 minutes
        Wednesday October 10
        Thursday October 11
        Friday October 12
        Saturday October 13
        Sunday October 14 1 hour 26 minutes
        Monday October 15

      • Old Atlantic said

        What is the document source for these? I assume you did not type them in from memory?

      • Old Atlantic said

        DXer, thanks for the note on the source. This calendar has some ambiguities in how to interpet it best resolved by another document.

        For example, the Covance trip could be interpreted as on Sep 25, 2001 at 8 AM but I thought it was already shown it was on Sep 18, 2001.

        There is an October version of the calendar? For that we know
        the dates of the rabbit experiments. Can you give me the links to that?

        Are there other documents on the experiments in September to help eliminate the ambiguity in the calendar?

        • BugMaster said

          Sept. 25, seven days later, did Ivins return for the rabbits’ second round of immunization?

        • anonymous said

          To compare Dr Ivins’ work schedule to the FBI affidavit that his entries into B3 in the evenings “unexplained”, see the following links:
          Compare pages 8 and 9 of the affidavit for search warrant here:
          http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/anthrax/SearchWarrant-08-431M-05.pdf
          To pages 123 and 124 of http://foia.fbi.gov/amerithrax/847447.PDF
          The first document ominously (almost with drum rolling) states on page 9:
          “Beginning on September 28, Dr Ivins worked eight consecutive nights which consisted of the following times in Building 1425 with time spent in Suite B3″:
          Friday September 28
          Saturday September 29
          Sunday September 30
          Monday October 1
          Tuesday October 2
          Wednesday October 3
          Thursday October 4
          Friday October 5
          After October 5, Dr Ivins did not enter Suite B3 in the evening again until October 9, for 15 minutes, and then October 14, for 1 hour and 26 minutes.
          But then look at his calendar on pages 123 and 124 at http://foia.fbi.gov/amerithrax/847447.PDF !!!
          That’s precisely what his calendar called on him to do – work these very eight consecutive nights checking on the animals. Good statistics need to be obtained to see exactly when animals died in order to properly analyze the effectiveness of vaccines – hence he did it at the same time every evening.
          The affidavit is therefore deliberately misleading and does not mention that his work schedule was followed to the letter.

        • anonymous said

          This link no longer works. http://foia.fbi.gov/amerithrax/847447.PDF

          Looks like the FBI have removed 847447 from their records. It contained the calendar on pages123 and 124. Maybe it’s still there under a new name?

        • BugMaster said

          Calender is for a mouse / guinea pig study.

          Calender for wabbits is dfferent!

        • BugMaster said

          Speaking of wabbits:

        • Old Atlantic said

          http://foia2.fbi.gov/amerithrax/847447.PDF

          This link works as of just now. Shows that Sep 14 to Sep 16 2001 were Night Mouse Check at 8 PM and that had 8 AM Sep 18 Covance Trip.

          Shows Oct 3 to Oct 5 had night mouse checks at 8 PM.

          It does not indicate here if this is Ivins’ personal calendar or not. Is there an indication of that somewhere in the document?

      • Old Atlantic said

        Using Anonymous posts below as a guide, My summary from the calendar p123-124 FBI 847447.pdf is

        Calendar 1 – 11 Sep
        14-16 sep
        28-30 sep
        1-5 oct

        These correspond to the dates in BSL3 as posted on the website of our erstwhile interlocutor. (That page has interesting discussion if you search on BSL.)

        In every case, the calendar indicates 8 PM and those are roughly the start times.

        • Old Atlantic said

          Note that the BSL3 dates and times fit the calendar for animal checks, but they do not fit any suggested schedule for growing, purifying, drying, and preparing anthrax spores in letters.

          The FBI would need to suggest such a schedule.

          If Ivins was doing mouse and other animal checks at these times, and the other records show limited after hours in the BSL3, then that shows Ivins did not prepare anthrax spores in the BSL3 in some other months of 2001 or 2000.

    • DXer said

      Oh, and of course, the lab notes would show if and how many mice were dead. Now, class, what do you do with a dead mouse? Run the autoclave. And how long does it take to run the autoclave? A request for the lab notes for the first 5 days leading up to and including October 2, 2001 under FOIA would be a starting point but someone should also request a copy of any log associated with the autoclaves for the same period.

      Do you think the assistant who Dr. Ivins says submitted the April 2002 samples (Former Colleague #2) is the same one giving estimates of how long it would take to autoclave a dead animal? (that so sharply contrasted with the other 302 estimate of 1 1 1/2 – 2 hours)? Check out the 302s yourself. As Dr. Heine commented when the 302 were uploaded, it’s easy to figure out who was saying what.

  9. DXer said

    Think of AUSA Rachel and Ken’s assessment of the evidence — without citation to or providing any of the lab notebook pages — as analogous to a dog and his bubble.

    http://www.funrise.com/photocontest/photo.aspx?id=031503040629

    And vote for the dog at the URL above if you want Rachel and Ken, via FOIA, to provide all the lab notebook cases relating to Dr. Ivins work with animals in September and October 2001.

    They have made the claim and speculated that Dr. Ivins is guilty of murder and was processing anthrax in the B3 on October 3, October 4, and October 5.

    Let them advise the FOIA office that the lab notebook pages (at a minimum, on the 5 dates that that Ken and Rachel list in the Amerithrax Summary) should be released before their bubble bursts.

    Any attorney should be willing to provide the documentation in support of their characterization of the evidence.

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