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	<title>Comments on: * tracking Dr. Ivins’ RMR-1029 anthrax; more questions for UM and LSU researchers</title>
	<atom:link href="http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/tracking-dr-ivins%e2%80%99-rmr-1029-anthrax-more-questions-for-um-and-lsu-researchers/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/tracking-dr-ivins%e2%80%99-rmr-1029-anthrax-more-questions-for-um-and-lsu-researchers/</link>
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		<item>
		<title>By: DXer</title>
		<link>http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/tracking-dr-ivins%e2%80%99-rmr-1029-anthrax-more-questions-for-um-and-lsu-researchers/#comment-749</link>
		<dc:creator>DXer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 02:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/?p=1590#comment-749</guid>
		<description>The grown-within-two-years of mailing was one of the first pieces to the puzzle reported in 2002 or so.

Question:  Did the FBI consult a genetics expert when contacted by the Iowa State University about destroying the collection there?  (According to the authors Coen and Nadler, who do not provide any source, the USDA also destroyed the collection that it had at the strip mall near the University).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The grown-within-two-years of mailing was one of the first pieces to the puzzle reported in 2002 or so.</p>
<p>Question:  Did the FBI consult a genetics expert when contacted by the Iowa State University about destroying the collection there?  (According to the authors Coen and Nadler, who do not provide any source, the USDA also destroyed the collection that it had at the strip mall near the University).</p>
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		<title>By: Marcia Chambers</title>
		<link>http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/tracking-dr-ivins%e2%80%99-rmr-1029-anthrax-more-questions-for-um-and-lsu-researchers/#comment-748</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcia Chambers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 02:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/?p=1590#comment-748</guid>
		<description>I agree with K. A.  I would not use a strain from my own country, let alone a sample from a flask that I had in my safe keeping.

I still say it was stolen at ISU and the theives did not know what they had.  It was not labeled Ames and it was probably cryptically coded.

How do we know for sure that it was all grown out in less than two years from the time of mailing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with K. A.  I would not use a strain from my own country, let alone a sample from a flask that I had in my safe keeping.</p>
<p>I still say it was stolen at ISU and the theives did not know what they had.  It was not labeled Ames and it was probably cryptically coded.</p>
<p>How do we know for sure that it was all grown out in less than two years from the time of mailing?</p>
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		<title>By: DXer</title>
		<link>http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/tracking-dr-ivins%e2%80%99-rmr-1029-anthrax-more-questions-for-um-and-lsu-researchers/#comment-709</link>
		<dc:creator>DXer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/?p=1590#comment-709</guid>
		<description>On the logs, I&#039;ve asked jp, the head FOI person, for the logs for flask 1028 and 1030.  I figure that is a pretty safe request, although whether they will be promptly produced (as soon as Monday) might depend on whether they have already been processed for Mr. Shane and Mr. Willman.

I believe Scott was only given a redacted version of 1029 and so that required the lengthy explanation of legal precedent under (b)(6).  My offer to jp the top FOI fellow was that I would brief the issue for him under whatever law he thought so that we could see if we could get on the same page.  I do think that the (b)(6) exemption is inapplicable.  (Especially where only a corporate name or university name is mentioned.  But I think the DOD has been great on FOI issues and so don&#039;t mean to be critical at all.  They gave me 100+ pages of correspondence between Ayman Zawahiri and his infiltrating scientist (and associated documents) for the cost of an email.  I just hope that to expedite things someone in Maryland like Attorney Kissin would drive over and pick up the entire file that Mr. Shane and Mr. Willman were provided and scan and upload it.  Once documents are produced, they are very easy to obtain.  The search has already been done.  Given your training in microbiology -- you would be especially suited to reviewing Ivins&#039; lab notebook 4010.  

Someone should also call jp (whose number Lew provided) and ask for the USAMRIID Log  Notebook 4010.  It would help you gauge the relevance of posts, the origin of the Silicon Signature in flask 1030, the origin of the subtilis (if there was any), the reason the lyophilizer (Speed Vac) was signed out for the DARPA project etc.

It was Ed who suggested he had the unredacted logs when he hadn&#039;t.  I had said that I had asked for copies with the redactions eliminated and I encouraged my friend Ken to bring suit to obtain them if they weren&#039;t produced within the statutory period for an appeal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the logs, I&#8217;ve asked jp, the head FOI person, for the logs for flask 1028 and 1030.  I figure that is a pretty safe request, although whether they will be promptly produced (as soon as Monday) might depend on whether they have already been processed for Mr. Shane and Mr. Willman.</p>
<p>I believe Scott was only given a redacted version of 1029 and so that required the lengthy explanation of legal precedent under (b)(6).  My offer to jp the top FOI fellow was that I would brief the issue for him under whatever law he thought so that we could see if we could get on the same page.  I do think that the (b)(6) exemption is inapplicable.  (Especially where only a corporate name or university name is mentioned.  But I think the DOD has been great on FOI issues and so don&#8217;t mean to be critical at all.  They gave me 100+ pages of correspondence between Ayman Zawahiri and his infiltrating scientist (and associated documents) for the cost of an email.  I just hope that to expedite things someone in Maryland like Attorney Kissin would drive over and pick up the entire file that Mr. Shane and Mr. Willman were provided and scan and upload it.  Once documents are produced, they are very easy to obtain.  The search has already been done.  Given your training in microbiology &#8212; you would be especially suited to reviewing Ivins&#8217; lab notebook 4010.  </p>
<p>Someone should also call jp (whose number Lew provided) and ask for the USAMRIID Log  Notebook 4010.  It would help you gauge the relevance of posts, the origin of the Silicon Signature in flask 1030, the origin of the subtilis (if there was any), the reason the lyophilizer (Speed Vac) was signed out for the DARPA project etc.</p>
<p>It was Ed who suggested he had the unredacted logs when he hadn&#8217;t.  I had said that I had asked for copies with the redactions eliminated and I encouraged my friend Ken to bring suit to obtain them if they weren&#8217;t produced within the statutory period for an appeal.</p>
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		<title>By: BugMaster</title>
		<link>http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/tracking-dr-ivins%e2%80%99-rmr-1029-anthrax-more-questions-for-um-and-lsu-researchers/#comment-704</link>
		<dc:creator>BugMaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/?p=1590#comment-704</guid>
		<description>DXer:

  I&#039;m not interested in playing 20 questions here.  What I am interested in is those unredacted logs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DXer:</p>
<p>  I&#8217;m not interested in playing 20 questions here.  What I am interested in is those unredacted logs.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: DXer</title>
		<link>http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/tracking-dr-ivins%e2%80%99-rmr-1029-anthrax-more-questions-for-um-and-lsu-researchers/#comment-703</link>
		<dc:creator>DXer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/?p=1590#comment-703</guid>
		<description>BugMaster,

Are you Biodefense Student?

Did you come from Iowa?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BugMaster,</p>
<p>Are you Biodefense Student?</p>
<p>Did you come from Iowa?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: DXer</title>
		<link>http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/tracking-dr-ivins%e2%80%99-rmr-1029-anthrax-more-questions-for-um-and-lsu-researchers/#comment-702</link>
		<dc:creator>DXer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:50:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/?p=1590#comment-702</guid>
		<description>BugMaster, 

Are you Biodefense Student?

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:EIHdEoT6bBsJ:www.freerepublic.com/tag/by:biodefensestudent/index%3Ftab%3Dcomments%3Bbrevity%3Dfull%3Boptions%3Dno-change+%22Debra+Anderson%22+%22Biodefense+Student%22&amp;cd=1&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;gl=us</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BugMaster, </p>
<p>Are you Biodefense Student?</p>
<p><a href="http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:EIHdEoT6bBsJ:www.freerepublic.com/tag/by:biodefensestudent/index%3Ftab%3Dcomments%3Bbrevity%3Dfull%3Boptions%3Dno-change+%22Debra+Anderson%22+%22Biodefense+Student%22&amp;cd=1&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;gl=us" rel="nofollow">http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:EIHdEoT6bBsJ:www.freerepublic.com/tag/by:biodefensestudent/index%3Ftab%3Dcomments%3Bbrevity%3Dfull%3Boptions%3Dno-change+%22Debra+Anderson%22+%22Biodefense+Student%22&amp;cd=1&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;gl=us</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: BugMaster</title>
		<link>http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/tracking-dr-ivins%e2%80%99-rmr-1029-anthrax-more-questions-for-um-and-lsu-researchers/#comment-701</link>
		<dc:creator>BugMaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/?p=1590#comment-701</guid>
		<description>Nope, DXer, not me. I find her views of Nothern Virginia most amusing, although a bit harsh!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nope, DXer, not me. I find her views of Nothern Virginia most amusing, although a bit harsh!</p>
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		<title>By: DXer</title>
		<link>http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/tracking-dr-ivins%e2%80%99-rmr-1029-anthrax-more-questions-for-um-and-lsu-researchers/#comment-700</link>
		<dc:creator>DXer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/?p=1590#comment-700</guid>
		<description>Bugs N Gas gal is &quot;a nice midwesterner temporarily held hostage in northern Virginia, a repugnant region teeming with evil, mannerless mutants.&quot;  Her &quot;interests are WMD, chemical and biological terrorism, biotechnology, the latest research in science &amp; technology, science fiction, frogs, meerkats, min-pins, birds, and fungi.&quot;

Her &quot;background includes a bachelor of science in biology and a master’s in strategic intelligence focusing on terrorism studies. I served 7 years in the U.S. Army doing body and fender work on nuclear warheads, then worked as a lab tech and inorganics analyst at a national research lab and a couple of commercial testing labs. Later I worked for an innovative GIS software company and I also worked for the U.S. government. Today I also have a job, a fact which pleases me a great deal. Someday I plan to build a potato gun. In the meantime, this blog is sort of a hobby although it does not fire flaming potatoes.&quot;

&quot;If you want to send me something of chemical or biological interest, or you would like to comment without it appearing on my blog, you can email me at bugsngasgal(at)comcast(dot)net.&quot;

&quot;Please note that comments containing links are moderated, so yours may not show up immediately. And finally, a disclaimer: anything on this blog is my own opinion and not necessarily the opinion of any past or present employer, blah, blah, blah.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bugs N Gas gal is &#8220;a nice midwesterner temporarily held hostage in northern Virginia, a repugnant region teeming with evil, mannerless mutants.&#8221;  Her &#8220;interests are WMD, chemical and biological terrorism, biotechnology, the latest research in science &amp; technology, science fiction, frogs, meerkats, min-pins, birds, and fungi.&#8221;</p>
<p>Her &#8220;background includes a bachelor of science in biology and a master’s in strategic intelligence focusing on terrorism studies. I served 7 years in the U.S. Army doing body and fender work on nuclear warheads, then worked as a lab tech and inorganics analyst at a national research lab and a couple of commercial testing labs. Later I worked for an innovative GIS software company and I also worked for the U.S. government. Today I also have a job, a fact which pleases me a great deal. Someday I plan to build a potato gun. In the meantime, this blog is sort of a hobby although it does not fire flaming potatoes.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;If you want to send me something of chemical or biological interest, or you would like to comment without it appearing on my blog, you can email me at bugsngasgal(at)comcast(dot)net.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Please note that comments containing links are moderated, so yours may not show up immediately. And finally, a disclaimer: anything on this blog is my own opinion and not necessarily the opinion of any past or present employer, blah, blah, blah.&#8221;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: DXer</title>
		<link>http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/tracking-dr-ivins%e2%80%99-rmr-1029-anthrax-more-questions-for-um-and-lsu-researchers/#comment-699</link>
		<dc:creator>DXer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/?p=1590#comment-699</guid>
		<description>BugMaster,

Can I have one last guess?

Are you the Bugs N Gas Gal who stopped posting after Bruce Ivins committed suicide?  But for the first week closely followed the matter -- and told her adoring fans that she would be posting on forums?  If so, your superhero identity is safe with me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BugMaster,</p>
<p>Can I have one last guess?</p>
<p>Are you the Bugs N Gas Gal who stopped posting after Bruce Ivins committed suicide?  But for the first week closely followed the matter &#8212; and told her adoring fans that she would be posting on forums?  If so, your superhero identity is safe with me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: BugMaster</title>
		<link>http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/tracking-dr-ivins%e2%80%99-rmr-1029-anthrax-more-questions-for-um-and-lsu-researchers/#comment-698</link>
		<dc:creator>BugMaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:20:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/?p=1590#comment-698</guid>
		<description>Actually, the flask had a spec of 3e10 / ml, not 3e9.  That corresponds to 600,000 LD50 (for rhesus monkeys) / per ml, based on a LD50 of 50,000 spores.  This is why the RMR-1029 material was transferred directly to Battelle to use as a challenge isolate for Ivin&#039;s RPA-102 / Vaxgen -  Project Bioshield Phase I - III project. Ivins didn&#039;t need to extract a small sample from the flask and grow it to a larger volume, the 90 mls followed 50 mls transferred to Battelle in 2001 provided more than enough material.

  BTW, that means that one cannot distinguish between a subculture taken directly from the flask and a subculture taken from any of the transferred material, since the transferred material was directly from the flask.

  As far as spore yields, I disagree, with non-anthrax bacillis (such as b. thuringensis and other non-pathogenic strains) yields in excess of 1 gram / liter of spore material is routine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, the flask had a spec of 3e10 / ml, not 3e9.  That corresponds to 600,000 LD50 (for rhesus monkeys) / per ml, based on a LD50 of 50,000 spores.  This is why the RMR-1029 material was transferred directly to Battelle to use as a challenge isolate for Ivin&#8217;s RPA-102 / Vaxgen &#8211;  Project Bioshield Phase I &#8211; III project. Ivins didn&#8217;t need to extract a small sample from the flask and grow it to a larger volume, the 90 mls followed 50 mls transferred to Battelle in 2001 provided more than enough material.</p>
<p>  BTW, that means that one cannot distinguish between a subculture taken directly from the flask and a subculture taken from any of the transferred material, since the transferred material was directly from the flask.</p>
<p>  As far as spore yields, I disagree, with non-anthrax bacillis (such as b. thuringensis and other non-pathogenic strains) yields in excess of 1 gram / liter of spore material is routine.</p>
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